We’re A Generation Of Concertgoers, Not CD-Buyers.
This is part two of my interview segment with Hannah, who is the writer behind File Sharing Represents New Generation. She could very well be the new music consumer, depending on who you ask. I found her short essay online and thought it was be an interesting take on the current happenings in the music industry – from the perspective of someone not as deeply as entrenched as most of us. In part two, Hannah shares her thoughts on how the free flow of music has benifited artists and what fans are willing to pay for.
Do the advantages of the free flow of music—for fans and artists alike—outweigh the disadvantages? Or, is it the other way around? Why do you think artists should embrace the flow of music rather than stigmatize it?
Hannah: I really feel as if the free flow of music increases fandom for artists, which ideally, is the goal of being a musician anyway. My absolute favorite band, the Avett Brothers, I never would have even heard if one of my friends hadn’t said, “Hey, listen to this band. Here, I’ll burn you a couple of CD’s.”
Because of that, I have already paid $300 for a Bonnaroo ticket to see them, and I would absolutely pay more money in the future to see them again.
My generation is a generation of concertgoers rather than a generation of CD-buyers. Our favorite artists are starting to come to much more accessible venues than previously, like clubs and even college campuses. I think that is a sign of artists recognizing and beginning to embrace the changing listener-ship.
What are fans willing to pay for? If they won't pay for digital downloads of music, how else are they planning to support the creativity of artists? In what instances do you feel inclined to buy music, compensating an artist?
Hannah: Fans are absolutely willing to pay for concerts. And all this is not to say that we will absolutely never download legally from iTunes, etc. We will, if we can’t find another easy way. Really, it's all about accessibility.
If someone we know knows how to get it for free, then of course we will do that. But if it's easier to log on and buy it, we’ll do that too.
Fans are also willing to listen to ads; Pandora has ads now, and many websites like HypeMachine have limits where you can’t skip through songs. That, in addition to being a restriction that we are willing to put up with, also exposes us to stuff we wouldn’t necessarily listen to otherwise.
How has the web changed and fueled your fandom? Are more fans becoming actively engaged in their cultural lives? Or, have we entered an era defined by more passivity and the failure of fans to pay for music?
Hannah: I definitely think we are becoming more actively engaged. The accessibility of the internet doesn’t just make us lazy and unwilling to pay for things, but it makes it much more easy, and frankly, trendier, to find new music.
There’s so many really cool Web sites out there that people go to, and even the music industry is seeing how cool the fluidity of music has become. Watch MTV; it’s not really even Top 40 anymore. I mean, you’ll get the Top 40 stuff, but half of the commercials on TV today have dubstep in the background.
What are the primary sites and ways that you consume music?
Hannah: LimeWire was probably the most primary way up until recently, but we still use iTunes a good bit as far as downloading goes. However, I would say that to discover music we generally use Pandora and HypeMachine.
In fact, I would say I download a lot less on iTunes now that I have my Pandora pretty specialized; I know that while I may not be able to pick exactly what I want to hear, I will probably hear one of my favorite songs during the time I’m listening.
We also go to a lot of shows; people at my school at least think nothing of going to concerts in Atlanta and Nashville, and we also go to a lot of local shows.
Strange last survey I have read, stated that concert attendance had drop from 50% since last decade !
( Survey: Youth 12-24 Go To 50% Fewer Concerts Than They Did A Decade Ago https://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2010/11/survey-youth-12-24-go-to-50-fewer-concerts-than-they-did-a-decade-ago-.html )
The fact is that now, concerts are less democratised than they were before because people have to recoup their losses. Of course rich kids and hipsters don’t care about that . One can argue that a lot of bands play in small venues and pubs but when they do most business owner will prefer to have people willing to play for free. This really hurts small bands that want to make their living, and there are even bands paying to play …
I think this Hannah Lazar just represents the upper-middle class kids who will get every new tech stuff and spend 150$ a day during their vacations.
300$ for a concert ticket ? What segment of the population can afford that ?
I am glad to see that Hypebot care about the opinion of an obscure campus radio dj, that will never produce any music and that has too much time/money on her hands 😉
I don't think that's a fair assessment. (And yes, I'm aware that her perceptions don't align with the data.) Also, I think your missing the point of viewing the music industry through a fan's perspective. There really aren't enough people who are making a point to talk to fans and I'm trying to do that. It's not easy to find fans who both have and opinion and can express it well. I'd contend that there's important things that can be learned through talking to people that exist outside of the music industry bubble.
I like the peice but this woman is a very small fraction of the music fan world, I know I could not afford a $300 ticket to any event, probably ever. I also know that people just don’t come out to shows as much as they used to.
You give the music away and sell the concert. Its like Chris Anderson said in his book free and that is why he charges a lot of money to speak at events and gives away his book free as a podcast.
You have to find a way of using the leverage of free to make money. Build relationships and community before trying to make money. There are no quick wins when trying to build a fan base.
I could just see a label exec reading this..
“And all this is not to say that we will absolutely never download legally from iTunes, etc. We will, if we can’t find another easy way. Really, it’s all about accessibility.
If someone we know knows how to get it for free, then of course we will do that. But if it’s easier to log on and buy it, we’ll do that too.”
..and saying “SEE! SEE! DRM works! Killing Limewire works! We need more lawsuits!”
The accessibility of the internet doesn’t just make us lazy and unwilling to pay for things, but it makes it much more easy, and frankly, trendier, to find new music.
There’s so many really cool Web sites out there that people go to, and even the music industry is seeing how cool the fluidity of music has become.
This is going to present its own set of problems. Among music blogs especially I see people jumping from one band to another very quickly. That makes it hard for musicians to build a fan base that is going to keep supporting them for the next 10-20 years.
It’s one thing to be popular for six months or a year. It’s quite another if you hope to make music your primary source of income over an entire career.
What’s interesting about her point of view is that she feels people are more interested in the experience of the event (a concert) rather than the memories (the CD). It’s hardly surprising if you consider that you can pretty much hear anything you want on YouTube.
Who needs to remember anything if you can tag it or bookmark it?
To take advantage of this thinking, a musician needs to think in “event” related terms rather than in “product” terms, even if there is no venue event.
No matter how the listener likes to discover music, from the musicians’ point of view, life is not fair and numbers matter. The more people hear your song, and the more times they hear it, the more familiar they will be with your brand and buy your tickets, CDs and merch, etc. If you start looking at these discovery services from a national viewpoint, it’s like clear channel; you’re going to end up with the same 250 bands who dominate the rest of the market. The listener calls it discovery, the musician should be calling it marketing.
I don’t think that I missed the point. I agree that it is interesting to have fans point of view but it has to be representative ones . Here we have the opinion of a presumptuously self-proclaimed voice of a generation. But she does not represent at all the average fan who is struggling to buy ,now over-priced, concert tickets. People say that file-sharing democratises culture and that live acts are more important than studio-albums (a last statement which I disagree with). But in the end it prevents ordinary folks to see live shows as attendance demography is more and more selected on money income, thus creating a sort a elitist fan class. Again I am not saying that cheap or free concerts are dead though in this segment we could also find a purists base and there would be a lot of things to say about it… If we consider NIN-Ghosts I–IV album case she doesn’t fit in the 75$ box-segment she is in the 300$ deluxe edition one. And this package was only published at 2500 units which is somehow irrelevant to the average artist. Yes I know she doesn’t buy albums any more, but people that would pay that much represent a minority in the minority of people actually willing to pay for music. How can she believes that she represents a generation ? Plus if I understand correctly she has just written a blog post on a campus webzine and nothing more. Apparently this deserves an interview these days .
And I must also add that every musicians are fans themselves and that we all started as fans…
I see the same issue: offering high priced goods to a limited number who have the money to pay. It’s probably a reality that you need to get 80% of your income from 20% of your fans, but then it becomes a different kind of business. You start focusing on high end goods and services because that’s where the money is. Nothing wrong with this kind of model, but it does become elitist, by necessity: You NEED to give the people with money something that everyone else can’t get, or otherwise, why would they pay?
Awesome interview Kyle and it’s great to here the perspective of a current music fan. I think there’s a few things wrong with the tone of your questions though and I’ll address that after….
Money money money money!
Man I am fed up with my fellow musicians’ attitude of “I’m a musician therefore I deserve to make money.”
BULLSHIT
If you can make money then good on you, but if you can’t well that’s just tough. The world has changed. Work with it. Deal with it.
Kyle, this is where I think your tone is wrong: “If they won’t pay for digital downloads of music, how else are they planning to support the creativity of artists? In what instances do you feel inclined to buy music, compensating an artist?”
The most important thing Hannah says is this: “If someone we know knows how to get it for free, then of course we will do that.”
Musicians charged a SHITLOAD for a CD because they could get away with. Fans now download stuff for free because they can get away with it.
MOST fans did not buy/do not buy music to support the musicians. They are not doing it because they feel obliged to support their artists. Anyone who thinks this is the case is mistaking the point.
Fans buy stuff for THEMSELVES and not the artist. (yeah I know a few like to support the artist but you are the majority).
Let’s take your average Motorhead fan from back in the day and put them in a ridiculously simple example:
Your average Motorhead fan likes to drink, fuck and fight. They like do these things whilst listening to heavy metal.
They have to have the music to listen to it so they bought it when they had no other choice and they download it for free now they do have the choice.
If you’re gonna be a fighting biker then you gotta look the part so you grow a beard and get some threads. Maybe a denim jacket with huge Motorhead patch on it that you bought from the gig. You didn’t buy it cos you wanna keep Lemmy topped up with booze, you bought it so you could show to your mates that you are one of them.
Back to Hannah’s quote of the century: “If someone we know knows how to get it for free, then of course we will do that.”
If concerts were free….err we’d all go to free concerts. You’re still showing your allegiance to that type of music so your friends don’t disown you.
If t-shirts were free….well we’d all be wearing free t-shirts of our favourite bands/musicians.
Why? Because MOST people wear this stuff so show everyone else where their lifestyle is at and not to support the artist.
They don’t WANT to support the artist and they don’t NOT WANT to support the artist. They just wanna get their kicks listning to some awesome music looking cool as fuck cos they got the latest tour t-shirt.
Unfortunately I have to agree with Chris on this one. Most people do what they do because it satisfies themselves and nothing else. I’m a musician and I agree with this fact. If I like someone’s music enough I will go to see them live (if the price is right and I have the money). I don’t do it thinking “I have to spend money on what their selling because they deserve it or I’m a loyal fan and want to support the cause.”. There are plenty of artists that I love that I spend only $1 or so on there albums. People throw around the idea that fans spend the money, but I think it’s the super fans, the die hards who actually spend the money (them and the wealthy). I love Radiohead and when given the choice I spent $10 when they put their last album up for sale through their website. I can’t say I would do that for many other artists.
I do think there is something inherently problematic with this situation though. To be a musician and to keep making music you need to be able to generate enough income to advertise your music to attract listeners who will attend your shows to help keep you going and making more music, whether it be fincially or mentally. Taking sale of CDs (or MP3s) out of the equation and that leaves a big hole to put towards marketing. Without that marketing musicians can’t reach fans to get them to the shows and the dominoes start to fall one after another.
Chancius
http://www.chancius.com
Yes there has been this assumption that if fans aren’t buying your music, they will turn around and spend money on something else you are selling (e.g., merchandise, shows). Not necessarily. If they can get what they want from you for free, they may very well turn around and spend the money they are saving on music on something else (e.g., food, fuel, other forms of entertainment).