This interview originally appeared on Handstamp
Some things will unexpectedly make you feel grateful for the truly special experiences in your life. I probably don’t reflect on just how privileged I’ve been to see so many incredible live performers at the peak of their powers.
I’ve had a bit of an epiphany this week. The sad reality is that it’s taken a widely-circulated video featuring a gaggle of laughably dressed grifters, seemingly with literally nothing coming through their stage monitors, performing at a highly-confused rally, to make me realise just how fortunate I am. I’m lucky to have enjoyed so many beautiful nights of music and incredibly lucky to have not attended that particular event.
A band I don’t expect to see at a Yaxley-Lennon misery festival is Pigeon. The sartorially sound, culturally diverse, afro-disco, jazz-infused post punk group have far more important work to do. Having recently been championed by Rolling Stone, BBC and The Times, the band currently have gale force wind in their sails.
On the week of the band’s debut album, I spoke to DJ, producer, label co-founder, self-proclaimed ‘binfluencer’ and Pigeon bassist Josh Ludlow. To kick off an enjoyable conversation, he recounted his early musical exposure.
Josh Ludlow: "I grew up in West London. Lots of music in the house. My dad always had a guitar, was always singing, always in bands. So, by the time I was 10 or 11, I was playing in a band with my brother."
Handstamp: "What did that sound like?"
Josh Ludlow: "We were listening to a lot of Blink 182 and Green Day, so I imagine it sounded like that. One of the first groups I was in was with Tom (Dream) from Pigeon, when he was about 13 and I was 12. I don’t think we played a gig. But yeah, as long as I can remember, I’ve been playing music."
Handstamp: "In London, there is seemingly unlimited access to live entertainment. Did you tap into that early on?"
Josh Ludlow: "100%. The first live shows I went to were at a place in Twickenham called Heatham House, where they would put on Battle of the Bands and open mic nights. It was a crazy thing, where there would be no adults, just loads of kids getting drunk, moshing and doing other things that teenagers do."
Those were the first gigs I remember. Not the most professional set-up, but a lot of fun."
Handstamp: "So, for your first live experiences, you likely knew most of the people performing?"
Josh Ludlow: "I’d imagine so, yeah. I’m racking my brain, trying to work out what my first ‘proper’ show was. I think that it could have been a festival, like Reading or something. I went there when I was 14."
Handstamp: "Reading was your festival of choice as a teenager?"
Josh Ludlow: "Definitely. From first being in rock bands, me and my brother quickly moved to metal. We started a thrash metal band called Mutant. We toured quite a lot, up and down the country. But because of that, we’d go to heavier festivals as well as Reading."
Handstamp: "Who were the stand-out performers during your visits to Reading?"
Josh Ludlow: "We saw Slipknot in the early 2000s. They were the biggest band in that world at the time. They were so culturally relevant then, just because they were so freaky. I remember they did the thing where they get everybody to get on the floor, then jump up at once. I don’t know how many people were there, but it felt like it was everyone in the world."
Handstamp: "My first festival was the companion version, in Leeds. Your first one can be quite mind altering, can’t it? It really feels that nothing exists beyond the gates of the festival, just for a few days."
Josh Ludlow: "Absolutely. I am now 36, so I got to experience life without smart phones, especially because I started going out so long ago. I was out doing my thing from 12 years old, basically. At my first festival, nobody had phones, I think maybe my brother had a pager at the time, so could communicate in a way but overall, I think everybody was far more present than they are now."
I had a bit of that more recently, when I went to Burning Man a few times. They had no phone service one year, so we were plunged back into that way of life. If you got lost, you wouldn’t see your friends for eight hours, or whatever."
Handstamp: "Festivals before phones were a lot more fun. I remember rumours spreading across the campsites and everybody believing them - random celebrity deaths, surprise headliners and things like that. Nobody will be fooled anymore. I remember once being at Leeds, when Slipknot were supposed to play and a plane flew over the festival, announcing that they had pulled out last minute. There was a collective groan."
Josh Ludlow: "[laughs] that’s pretty epic. That’s how they should announce everything, I reckon. I have a little Slipknot anecdote for you."
In one of the groups I played in, called Turbogeist, we ended up sharing a manager with them, he was a great guy. He brought one of the members of Slipknot to one of our gigs, then he hung out afterwards, we had a few drinks and ended up being friends with him. They told us some pretty crazy drinking games that they used to play and we ended up playing some of them, some involving pints of piss. I don’t want to name any names, but it all got a little bit messy."
Handstamp: "Wow. A pint of potential Slipknot piss?"
Josh Ludlow: "[laughs] no, your own piss! It was your own piss or however many shots. I’d have to check in with the guys. It was so great hanging with him, because he was the soundest guy and we’d be in SXSW, but nobody would recognise him, because of the mask. If it were a member of any other band as big as them, you wouldn’t have been able to be in the bar, without constant photos, you know?"
“We played three Metallica covers and the local vicar ended up in the mosh pit. I enjoyed it so much, playing metal drums as an energetic youth was good for me, as I’ve always been quite high energy.”
Handstamp: "A lovely life, the sweet spot really. You can be in the biggest band in the world and still walk down the street. Genius. Now, you’ll have to tell me about Burning Man, because I’ve heard wild things, I know how it’s talked about, have seen the Mad Max aesthetic, but know very little about what actually goes down."
Josh Ludlow: "It’s interesting. Musically, I can sum it up by saying I had been there for four or five days without seeing a moment of live music. The only music that had been playing was a version of not-great Americanised dance music, Tuluminati type melodic, soft techno. This is around 2017. I was kind of fed up, but stumbled across a tent where there was an eight-piece group playing amazing funk jams. I was so relieved to hear some music that connected with me that I cried. So, that sums up the music policy really."
Handstamp: "So, not a very music-first type of festival..."
Josh Ludlow: "It’s just too difficult to have a live group there, because the dust is SERIOUS. After a CDJ’s been there, they have to be opened up, turned inside out, cleaned and put back together. So, if you think about taking your favourite amp or synth there, it just isn’t really feasible."
Handstamp: "That funk group sounds like it may have been a mirage. You’d been out in the desert heat too long, being musically dehydrated…"
Josh Ludlow: "[laughs] exactly! But no, that show was great. Tiny tent, which was dressed in a really stylish way. It felt like wandering into a little casbah or something. When I was going there, around 2016, 2017, 2018, that was the vibe."
Maybe it’s changed now. There was still lots of really cool things to see. You could see these incredible art cars, which had been worked on for decades. They have lasers that shoot out to space and everything. There are so many experiences you can have there that you’ll never forget."
Handstamp: "It’s great to still be able to get that shot of escapism, similar to those early festivals you went to. Going back a bit, what was it that turned you to the world of metal?"
Josh Ludlow: "It was my brother, who was really into playing metal guitar and needed a drummer. The first gig we played together, as Mutant, was at a church next to our school at an open mic type of thing. We played three Metallica covers and the local vicar ended up in the moshpit. I enjoyed it so much, playing metal drums as an energetic youth was good for me, as I’ve always been quite high energy."
Handstamp: "As you’ve played music publicly for years now, what was the last show you really enjoyed as a punter?"
Josh Ludlow: "My day job is as a DJ, so I play 60 to 70 gigs a year, all around the world. Every weekend, I’m in a club, watching other DJs, which is fine. Sometimes it’s special and the energy is incredible. However, it’s worlds away from a really impactful live band."
The last gig I bought tickets to was Altın Gün, maybe two years ago and I’ll never forget that experience. Watching them play, how good they are at their instruments, how much time has been put into the presentation of the show… incredible. It’s still totally unmatched for me, seeing a truly brilliant live band."
Handstamp: "I love that you can still feel that level of enthusiasm. We’re around the same age and as you age, it’s less common that something can really blow you away. When it happens, you get such a nostalgic thrill."
Josh Ludlow: "Absolutely. I’ve been in bands, I’m not a super proficient musician like some, I have my thing and I go for it when I play, but I know that technically I’ll never be at a super high level, so for that reason, seeing people who are technically brilliant at their instrument or skill just never gets old for me."
When we play with Pigeon, because Falle (Nioke, vocals) is such an incredible performer, it still blows me away. We just came back from playing a festival in Norway and it was so much bigger than we expected. There was even a massive runway at the front of the stage, Miley Cyrus style. Falle was completely at home and we all marvelled at him running down there, getting involved, putting on a show. We enjoyed watching him as much as playing ourselves."
Handstamp: "I know you’re based in Hastings, but the majority of the band is based in Margate, right?"
Josh Ludlow: "Pretty much, yeah."
“Seeing people who are technically brilliant at their instrument or skill just never gets old for me. When we play with Pigeon, because Falle is such an incredible performer, it still blows me away.”
Handstamp: "I know the scene has grown enormously there in the last decade. Are you integrated into that and where are the notable places to play or see live music there?"
Josh Ludlow: "Yes, absolutely. It’s a very small place. We play a venue run by a guy called Sammy, called Where Else? He put on our first show, he’s very active in the music scene and has created a hub for local artists and a place for smaller touring acts to stop by. Then there’s Dreamland, where you’ll have bigger acts come through. It’s a good scene. Everyone knows everyone and everybody collaborates."
Handstamp: "The new record OUTTANATIONAL is out now, how are you feeling about sharing the new music in a live environment?"
Josh Ludlow: "Really good. It’s been fun. We played the same songs for quite a while, even though Pigeon has performed extremely sporadically, we have played the same tracks for a few years. Playing together live is really fun, we all enjoy it a lot."
The latest Pigeon record OUTTANATIONAL was released in May 2026 via Memphis Industries.
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